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have to do more explaining and in the first hour he did a better job hitting at romney than ryan did hitting at obama. i think ryan, though, was, came across as ernest, knowledgeable and polite, whereas especially in that first hour, joe biden was clearly playing by cable debate rules, which is interrupt and talk over your opponent at will. i think al is right that is going to enthuse democrats. i am not sure how it is going to play with undecided voters. me personally and i am not an undecided veert it came across as off putting, obnoxious and rude and i can guarantee that on the shows tomorrow morning and in the cable discussion going forward, tomorrow and into the weekend the biden smiles and the biden smirks and the biden interruptions will be a juicy topic for discussion. >> rose: mark hall snrin. >> halperin? >> well, i am mostly going to paraphrase what rich lowry just said, there are two things that clearly come out of this, one is the detrimentally base is going to be pleased that they thought, saw the somebody fighting on their behalf and being aggressive on a lot of big is
have to do more explaining and in the first hour he did a better job hitting at romney than ryan did hitting at obama. i think ryan, though, was, came across as ernest, knowledgeable and polite, whereas especially in that first hour, joe biden was clearly playing by cable debate rules, which is interrupt and talk over your opponent at will. i think al is right that is going to enthuse democrats. i am not sure how it is going to play with undecided voters. me personally and i am not an undecided...
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now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you think the president will be up to it now that the bar's been raised next week? >> we'll see. >> you're still undecided. >> yes. >> sam, you're still undecided. you gave me an answer earlier. you said, you know, they've been running for president for months and months and months. you have the internet, newspapers, radio, tv. you're getting bombarded by ads here. why can't you make up your mind? >> as i said before, we work for a living. you know, a lot of us get up at 4:00 a.m., go to work for 12, 14 hours. we're at home with our kids. we're not doing thi
now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you...
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Oct 8, 2012
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part of the problem is that i have asked romney and ryan repeatedly. i asked ryan on this show last sunday not -- i don't agree with you it is a $5 trillion tax cut but i said where do you make up the $5 trillion for are lowering tax rates in terms of the deductions and loopholes, how do you make it up? they reduce to tell us. independent experts say even if you took away all of the deductions it is not going to add up to $5 trillion. >> the governor said he understands he has to work with both sides of the aisle. we know right now for example in the house dave camp is working on the issue of lowering, simplifying, and even in the senate they had discussions. he said in the debate i will work with members of both sides of the aisle. looking at a simpson bowles type model. this is not new and we know that it can be done. if you go back to when it was last done of simplifying the tax code. >> simpson boles were more specific about yes, lowering the rates. >> he said he is going to work across the aisle. he is going to listen to both sides of the aisle an
part of the problem is that i have asked romney and ryan repeatedly. i asked ryan on this show last sunday not -- i don't agree with you it is a $5 trillion tax cut but i said where do you make up the $5 trillion for are lowering tax rates in terms of the deductions and loopholes, how do you make it up? they reduce to tell us. independent experts say even if you took away all of the deductions it is not going to add up to $5 trillion. >> the governor said he understands he has to work...
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governor romney and congressman ryan. >> you know, in terms of the political saigs of this we're here at a debate. but the entire reason that this has become the you know political topic it is is because of mitt romney and paul ryan. it's a big part of their stump speech. it's reckless and irresponsible. >> greta: what about at ab? you've got sound byte of the vice president and the sound byte of stephanie cutter. the vice president seems to have his facts fuzzy z stephanie blaming romney. >> the administration has a problem with the libya story. everyone knows what happened and everyone read all of the accounts, these conflicting accounts and they vai problem with this. and they need to know it. they need to figure this out. and if biden says something today that turns out to be, can be proven wrong in the next couple days that actually divides president and president knew their requests for more security from benghazi to the state department and they're turned down, they knew it all along. that is going to be a huge problem. but this story is a huge problem if that is never determin
governor romney and congressman ryan. >> you know, in terms of the political saigs of this we're here at a debate. but the entire reason that this has become the you know political topic it is is because of mitt romney and paul ryan. it's a big part of their stump speech. it's reckless and irresponsible. >> greta: what about at ab? you've got sound byte of the vice president and the sound byte of stephanie cutter. the vice president seems to have his facts fuzzy z stephanie blaming...
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ryan said that governor romney was a car guy. if they have an elevator stacked on their couch, i guess he was. >> there was one person on stage who was thought full, respect l respectful, steady and poised, the kind of person you want to turn to in a crisis and that was the next vice president of the united states, paul ryan. i see these obama rallies and they're chanting four more years. our cheer is four more weeks. >> guys, i have to say, that was easily my most favorite debate of the season so far. i think biden was the clear winner, gave democrats the shot of energy they needed, hammered them on the 47%, hammered him on lying, said the facts matter. the moment where they talked about abortion was so destructive because ryan said i'm going to make you all do what i believe in my catholic doctrine and biden said, hey, i believe this, i respect catholic doctrine but i'll let you do what you want to do and made the case that the supreme court is in the balance. but one of the things that i like -- i noticed that ryan can't expla
ryan said that governor romney was a car guy. if they have an elevator stacked on their couch, i guess he was. >> there was one person on stage who was thought full, respect l respectful, steady and poised, the kind of person you want to turn to in a crisis and that was the next vice president of the united states, paul ryan. i see these obama rallies and they're chanting four more years. our cheer is four more weeks. >> guys, i have to say, that was easily my most favorite debate...
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of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates arguing on televis n television, media pundits providing the analysis. and what was striking about last week's debate between governor romney and president obama, first time 90 minutes unfiltered, these two men going face to face, challenging one another. that's what this is about. it's just about suddenly we get to see the two leaders, in this case, the two vps. >> sort of philosophical. just part two of this philosophical debate. >> correct. it's the only moment in the campaign. last week 70 million viewers. this week, who knows how many
of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates...
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laid out a plan, the ryan/romney plan. not just a contrast in style but in substance. >> so what's the next debate look like, ed, as you guys prepare for the second presidential debate? >> well, it's a town hall format, as you know. it allows for an opportunity to hear from real people and their concerns. they have a lot of legitimate concerns and we're looking forward to continuing this momentum that we got out of the first debate and that paul ryan and his big win over sitting vice president. i can't recall a time when the challenger for the vice president to the vice president bested the vice president in the debate and when you look at a poll, most people saw in paul ryan someone who had a command of the facts, a clear and positive agenda for the future and someone who is very serious about the issues, the serious issues that we face as a country. we're going to continue to highlight those big choice differences before the american people. >> ed gillespie, thank you very much for being on the show. we'll talk to you so
laid out a plan, the ryan/romney plan. not just a contrast in style but in substance. >> so what's the next debate look like, ed, as you guys prepare for the second presidential debate? >> well, it's a town hall format, as you know. it allows for an opportunity to hear from real people and their concerns. they have a lot of legitimate concerns and we're looking forward to continuing this momentum that we got out of the first debate and that paul ryan and his big win over sitting...
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Oct 7, 2012
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will they paint romney and ryan as extremists? or will they paint them as flip-floppers, because they are not the same thing and if he goes after ryan and say, you are an extremist and after romney and say you don't know what you think and those things are mutually exclusive. >> chris: the bottom line and you hinted at it is, does it really matter? as entertaining as it may be, do people vote based on what the vice presidential candidates say and i think we all agree that most -- the most one-sided debate as lloyd bentsen and dan quayle and, brit hume you were on the podium, that night. and -- rather, the panel, and, that was the one, we are seeing the moment, where bentsen says to dan quayle, you are no jack kennedy and, you hear the roar from the crowd but he was running with dukakis and we didn't end up with him. >> i remember after the debate was over i asked the question of dan quayle, if something happened to the president, god forbid what would be the first thing you'd do and he fumbled the question and, lloyd bentsen had a
will they paint romney and ryan as extremists? or will they paint them as flip-floppers, because they are not the same thing and if he goes after ryan and say, you are an extremist and after romney and say you don't know what you think and those things are mutually exclusive. >> chris: the bottom line and you hinted at it is, does it really matter? as entertaining as it may be, do people vote based on what the vice presidential candidates say and i think we all agree that most -- the most...
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ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is going to be is to try to create a split, is try to put him in an awkward position, make him defend one or the other. i think one thing to watch for tonight is it's my understanding -- from when i was talking to the campaigns, if they get one thing out of biden tonight, the obama campaign, that is to make the base of the democratic party feel better tonight, that he gets a little aggressive, that he goes after some core issues like abortion, like contraception to make the base feel better. on the ryan side, they know they sort of have in a weird way they
ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is...
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. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand by what i said, whatever it was. >>> we are pumped up, fired up, and jacked up with just hours until tonight's first and only face-off between vice president joseph biden and vice presidential nominee paul ryan. and what was once regarded as a popcorn side show has taken on far greater significance in the wake of the president's less than scintillating performance last week. democrats are anxious, republicans are hungry for a surge, and as ryan and biden take the stage tonight, they have a chance to influence this election at a volatile moment. and the president himself knows he's got to push harder against his ever-shifting rival. speaking just moments
. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand...
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>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >> mitt romney's tax proposals, because he has said that he can cut taxes without blowing up the deficit, without being deficit neutral, and at the same time keep defense spending. >> yeah. >> increase the defense budget. how does that work? >> governor romney said he can lower marginal tax rates and generate offsetting revenue so we don't increase the side of the deficit. >> how do you generate that? >> you reduce the number of write-offs and loopholes in some combinations. >> which would you reduce? he's not been specific. >> he's provided more specificity than t
>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >>...
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now they're trying to blame the romney/ryan ticket for making this an issue. with respect to iraq, we had the same position before the withdrawal which was we agreed with the obama administration. let's have a status of forces agreement to make sure we secure out gains. the vice president was put in charge of those negotiations by president obama and they failed to get the agreement. we don't have a status of forces agreement because they failed to get one. that's what we are talking about. when it comes to our veterans we owe them a great debt of gratitude for what they've done for us includie ining your son,. we also want to make sure we don't lose the things we fought so hard to get. with respect to afghanistan, the 2014 deadline, we agree with the 2014 transition. but what we also want it do is make sure that we're not projecting weakness abroad. that's what's happening here. this benghazi issue would be a tragedy in and of itself, but unfortunately it's indicative of a broader problem. and that is what we are watching on our tv screens is the unraveling o
now they're trying to blame the romney/ryan ticket for making this an issue. with respect to iraq, we had the same position before the withdrawal which was we agreed with the obama administration. let's have a status of forces agreement to make sure we secure out gains. the vice president was put in charge of those negotiations by president obama and they failed to get the agreement. we don't have a status of forces agreement because they failed to get one. that's what we are talking about....
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he mentioned the reset. >> what would romney/ryan do? >> we agree with the same redline that they do on chemical weapons, but not putting american troops in, other than to secure those chemical weapons. they are right about that, but what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters, those dissidents in syria. we should not have called bashar al assad a reformer, and we should not have waited for russia to give us the green light at the u.n. to do something about it. they are still arming the man. iran is flying flights over iraq. >> and the opposition is being armed. >> to help bashar al assad and by the way if we had the status forces agreement that the vice president said he'd bet his vice presidency on in iraq we'd probably be able to achieve that but he failed to achieve that again. >> >> what is in the national interests of the american people. the strategic national interests of our country. >> no humanitarian? >> each situation will come up with its own set of circumstances, but putting american troops on the g
he mentioned the reset. >> what would romney/ryan do? >> we agree with the same redline that they do on chemical weapons, but not putting american troops in, other than to secure those chemical weapons. they are right about that, but what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters, those dissidents in syria. we should not have called bashar al assad a reformer, and we should not have waited for russia to give us the green light at the u.n. to do something about...
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ryan is expected to win his house seat again this year and if the romney/ryan ticket does claim the white house, wisconsin will hold a special election to replace him. polling places are not doing enough to make buildings handicap accessible and companies that sell portable wheelchair ramps say they are not seeing the same number of sales as they did in 2008. even then less that a third of polling places were not handicap accessible. we are live in chat current.com/billpress current.com/billpress. [♪ theme music ♪] >> announcer: broadcasting across the nation, on your radio, and on current tv this is the "bill press show." >> bill: all eyes on lexington, kentucky tonight and all democratic hopes spin on jolten joe biden. give us a call at 866-55-press and go to current tv and chick on the chat room with a lot of your full court pressers across the land debating the issues here on the air. we'll tell you what is happening around the country and globe this is nat's headquarters as well. we're pretty disappointed in an loss to the cardinals yesterday. so sports politics religion sex, we
ryan is expected to win his house seat again this year and if the romney/ryan ticket does claim the white house, wisconsin will hold a special election to replace him. polling places are not doing enough to make buildings handicap accessible and companies that sell portable wheelchair ramps say they are not seeing the same number of sales as they did in 2008. even then less that a third of polling places were not handicap accessible. we are live in chat current.com/billpress...
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yep, paul ryan. romney told cbs? august he would consider spending in troop in syria to stop chemical weapons. but it took the obama administration two full weeks to admit the terrorism behind the benghazi attack. but that is not true. and ryan attacked the administration for spending tax-payer dollars on electric cars in finland. he is referring to a loan from the energy department to the car maker fiskar so they could create electric cars. that loan money came from a program passed in 2007 before obama took off. we'll be right back. ♪ [ crowd cheers ] [ male announcer ] clay matthews is turning the nfl upside-down. turn your world upside down with gillette fusion proglide because you can shave against the grain with comfort. only proglide has gillette's thinnest blades for less tug and pull, so you can shave against the grain comfortably. fusion proglide, our most comfortable shave or twice your money back. ♪ ♪ gillette the best a man can get. [♪ theme music ♪] >> announcer: broadcasting across the nation
yep, paul ryan. romney told cbs? august he would consider spending in troop in syria to stop chemical weapons. but it took the obama administration two full weeks to admit the terrorism behind the benghazi attack. but that is not true. and ryan attacked the administration for spending tax-payer dollars on electric cars in finland. he is referring to a loan from the energy department to the car maker fiskar so they could create electric cars. that loan money came from a program passed in 2007...
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reporters asked paul ryan if he's on the same page with romney. >> our position's unified. our position's consistent and that hasn't changed. >> what is your position? >> you'll find -- i'm sure you'll find out in these debates. >> were you upset that he said that to -- >> no, no position change. our position's very consistent. >> romney could only dodge the question so much. the campaign went into full spin mode. romney's spokeswoman, andrea saul, had to mop it up again. she gave a statement to the conservative "national review"." governor romney would of course support legislation aimed at providing greater protections for life." tony perkins got on the phone to say, don't worry, romney made a gaffe, this is not a change of position at all. perkins confirmed the campaign called and assured him romney wasn't changing his support for pro-life issues. romney himself tried to dig himself out of a hole. >> i'm a pro-life candidate and i'll be a pro-life president. the actions i'll take immediately are to remove funding for planned parenthood. >> it's hard to understand how mit
reporters asked paul ryan if he's on the same page with romney. >> our position's unified. our position's consistent and that hasn't changed. >> what is your position? >> you'll find -- i'm sure you'll find out in these debates. >> were you upset that he said that to -- >> no, no position change. our position's very consistent. >> romney could only dodge the question so much. the campaign went into full spin mode. romney's spokeswoman, andrea saul, had to mop...
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we're as close as it is. >> ryan, this is a shift actually in the romney/ryan campaign. they've started to use the word capability for the threshold. >> very important. >> that's a very ambiguous standard. they're not saying have nuclear weapons, they're saying the capability. >> everyone should be clear. this is one of the things where there is a policy difference that's being obscured by the rhetoric. the debate largely between the obama administration and netanyahu's folks as far as i can understand as i follow this is the question is the red line a weapon or is the red line a capability. the capability is before actually having a weapon and much more haze zilly defined? is that more or less -- >> that's my understanding. there's a broader sense of whether would an obama administration support israel as opposed to a romney administration? that is a real debate and a real question people are asking. i think if there is one to attack, obama would go along with it in the end. >> the intractability of syria was another issue that was on the table. i think the reason that
we're as close as it is. >> ryan, this is a shift actually in the romney/ryan campaign. they've started to use the word capability for the threshold. >> very important. >> that's a very ambiguous standard. they're not saying have nuclear weapons, they're saying the capability. >> everyone should be clear. this is one of the things where there is a policy difference that's being obscured by the rhetoric. the debate largely between the obama administration and netanyahu's...
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you can see listed their favored candidates, mitt romney and paul ryan. we asked them for comment. he said to encourage employees to be informed, coke mailed a letter to their 50,000 u.s. based employees, makes clear the decisions about which candidates to support are up to each employee and based on factors important to him or her. the information they request, voter registration deadline, voting deadlines and a list of candidates supported by coke companies. it's no surprise, of course, the coke brothers support romney for president. they promised to spend $400 million for americans for prosperity to prevent president obama from winning a second term. they raise questions about the propryettery. agreed ceos marshalling the support of those who work for them. west gate resort ceo david segal e-mailed employees saying he'll have no choice but fire people if president obama is reelected and his tax rates go up. it doesn't pose a threat to your job. what does is another four years of the same presidential administration. if taxes are levied on me or my company, i will have no choice
you can see listed their favored candidates, mitt romney and paul ryan. we asked them for comment. he said to encourage employees to be informed, coke mailed a letter to their 50,000 u.s. based employees, makes clear the decisions about which candidates to support are up to each employee and based on factors important to him or her. the information they request, voter registration deadline, voting deadlines and a list of candidates supported by coke companies. it's no surprise, of course, the...
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the ryan/romney team would allow people vouchers. i imagine telling an 80-year-old to get on a bus and find someone to sell them a health inpolicy. that's not all of it. mr. romney, when you're not supposed to be listening to him, that's when you should listen to him. his condensation on seniors and social security, that they should take spoon buiresponsibi their lives. if you have a pre-existing health condition and don't have health insurance and now can't get it, well, sir, that was your decision. that's romney talking. obama stuck his neck out and rescued it. mr. romney said, let it take bankruptcy. this is the big drastic differences between these candidates and these debates should debate them. >> howard fineman, a political analyst and editorial director of the huffington post. he's here and rounding out our panel in kentucky is the pulitzer prize columnist eugene robinson. thank you for being with us. i want to start with chuck. your reporting, does it tell you that it's going to be a broad debate about philosophy and differe
the ryan/romney team would allow people vouchers. i imagine telling an 80-year-old to get on a bus and find someone to sell them a health inpolicy. that's not all of it. mr. romney, when you're not supposed to be listening to him, that's when you should listen to him. his condensation on seniors and social security, that they should take spoon buiresponsibi their lives. if you have a pre-existing health condition and don't have health insurance and now can't get it, well, sir, that was your...
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ryan, romney, romney of course on the top of the ticket. i think you've seen from democrats a real attempt to tie the republican ticket to the house republicans who don't have a very high favorability rating so that's going to be what biden's going to try to do, lay out point by point. he'd been reading that book "young guns" by some of those tea party folks partly authored by paul ryan. i think it's a matter of laying those facts out and hitting him back with his own words. $18 billion taken from medicare where he does the same thing in his budget. >> well, and as far as the gender gap numbers, easterin. president obama gained among women after the debate while romney gained them on men. we talked after the debate and you and others noted there was not a lot of conversation -- i mean, listen, we know that women are concerned about the economy. we get that. i actually even don't like when people say that because that is a no brainer. we're all concerned about the economy. everyone wants to work. and we know that there are men who are concer
ryan, romney, romney of course on the top of the ticket. i think you've seen from democrats a real attempt to tie the republican ticket to the house republicans who don't have a very high favorability rating so that's going to be what biden's going to try to do, lay out point by point. he'd been reading that book "young guns" by some of those tea party folks partly authored by paul ryan. i think it's a matter of laying those facts out and hitting him back with his own words. $18...
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obviously, ron, we see which direction the romney/ryan ticket would like to at least take this week? >> reporter: claktly. hey there, tamron. hope you can hear me over the rumble of the bus. we're heading into detroit. i'm sure the campaign could pack more stuff into the schedule today. in addition to the rally if in toledo where you heard paul ryan, he has three events around the detroit area. this is romney's old stomping ground from his younger days, and they're not quite ready to give up on a michigan where they think they can make a play. he's on his way to an education roundtable and a fund-raiser and another big rally tonight planned. another thing unusual about his speech in toledo was the fact it was much longer than usual. he went 33 minutes or so. usually we get a15, 20 minutes out of him and he doesn't spend a lot of time talking about foreign policy. because the crowd saw governor romney's speech at the virginia military institute, paul ryan wanted to talk a little bit about that and perhaps giving him a little more of a chance to get some of the foreign policy stuff out
obviously, ron, we see which direction the romney/ryan ticket would like to at least take this week? >> reporter: claktly. hey there, tamron. hope you can hear me over the rumble of the bus. we're heading into detroit. i'm sure the campaign could pack more stuff into the schedule today. in addition to the rally if in toledo where you heard paul ryan, he has three events around the detroit area. this is romney's old stomping ground from his younger days, and they're not quite ready to give...
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ryan was defending romney. what was biden doing, defending his mom and dad, the 47%, the middle class. and that's the message that the obama information wanted out there. we are fighting, we are passionate, we go overboard maybe a little bit in defense of the middle class and wanted to keep ryan bollixed up. >> pelley: one of the subcontexts is voters might be looking at both men thinking which one of these guys could be president and that goes to norah's point that vice president biden was sort of looking askance at paul ryan and sort of taking advantage of his youth. >> reporter: i think there's a down side, potentially, to that. the knock against the clinton administration that the romney people are trying to play on is that they're arrogant. they've gotten kind of lax. they've gotten settled with themselves. and this notion that kind of you can laugh off the things-- that could for some voters come across as a little bit too proud of yourself when you have presided over an economy that's this week. >> pelle
ryan was defending romney. what was biden doing, defending his mom and dad, the 47%, the middle class. and that's the message that the obama information wanted out there. we are fighting, we are passionate, we go overboard maybe a little bit in defense of the middle class and wanted to keep ryan bollixed up. >> pelley: one of the subcontexts is voters might be looking at both men thinking which one of these guys could be president and that goes to norah's point that vice president biden...